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Tuomo

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Posts posted by Tuomo

    Latest Firmware for Power PMAC UMAC 465 CPU

    in Power PMAC

    Posted

    Hi,

     

    I know that Power PC based UMAC 465 CPUs are phasing out, but are there still any firmware updates available? If yes, how long they are supported and kept "functionally" in sync with the latest ARM CPUs?

     

    I'm planning to start using 1.2 GHz 32/64-bit Dual Core CPU w/ 2GB DDR3 RAM for high performance nc prototyping purposes (max 8 axes) without EtherCAT. Can anybody see any potential performance etc issue / known problem if using a 465 CPU? Would like to keep my budget pretty low during prototyping and switch over to the latest generation later on...

     

    Regards,

    Tuomo

    POWER UMAC and NC

    in Power PMAC-NC16

    Posted

    Hi,

     

    As an old customer for Delta Tau product line I would like to know the following:

     

    1) How is POWER UMAC, including UMAC controller + axis and i/o cards + NC software (NC runtime + SDK), positioned in Omron's long term product road map?

    2) How about Geo Direct PWM Amplifier family? I cannot find them anymore on your website... Are they phasing out..?

    3) Is TURBO UMAC family still supported? Can I still purchase NC software..?

     

    Best regards,

    Tuomo

    Manuals for Power PMAC-NC HMI (PPNC)

    in Power PMAC

    Posted

    That would be great - thanks!

     

    So, if I understood right, PMAC-NC HMI is working as follows: A part program (witch is in sync with all already downloaded subprograms etc) to be run is located in Win 7 server (client) and can be shown in the HMI window. Before execution, the nc-file is fully downloaded to PPMAC (as a file?). In unmanned run HMI is not showing anything. If the status info (position, velocity, block under execution etc.) is shown, the client program (PMAC-NC) is requesting the data and "superpositioning" it with the local copy of the nc program (i.e. showing the current line etc). In this way even the high block rate programs can be run without any throughput issue, and position etc. status info is retrieved and shown with its own update rate independent of the actual block rate of the part program run. Is this the way it works?

     

    Just want to understand the big picture first... :-)

     

    Regards,

    Tuomo

    Manuals for Power PMAC-NC HMI (PPNC)

    in Power PMAC

    Posted

    Hi,

     

    Where could I find manuals and reference material for Power PMAC-NC HMI (PPNC) and / or Power PMAC-NC Software Development Kit (SDK)?

     

    I guess that PPNC is using Secure SSH/SFTP communications with PPMAC right? With TURBO PMAC family controllers, interrupt-driven PCI/ISA (with binary buffer) was the communication method of choise over ethernet/USB as for high block-rate throughput was concerned. How is it with PPMAC? What is the max. throughput if PPNC is used - i.e. is there severe restrictions due to SSH/SFTP communication? How the communication is handled?

     

    Thank you in advance!

     

    Tuomo

    UMAC Turbo CPU with PC/104-bus interface

    in Turbo PMAC

    Posted

    Hi Steve,

     

    Thank you for answering quickly!

     

    Just to summarize please comment the following statements:

     

    1) UMAC Turbo CPU/Communications Board (3xx-603766-xHxx) with PC/104 Option is fully supported by Delta Tau as it comes to 32-bit version of Windows 7. This card with PC/104 option will have support in the future, too. Correct?

     

    2) Windows 7 compatible Non-plug & play 32-bit ISA kernel driver + .inf-file are provided by Delta Tau and can be manually installed by W7 Device Manager. Correct?

     

    3) 64-bit ISA kernel driver for Windows 7 is not available by Delta tau. Correct?

     

    4) Base address, DPRAM memory configuration, IRQ assignments and mode of communication (Basic Configuration 0-3) can be configured via Windows 7 Device Manager. Correct?

     

    5) PComm32PRO is fully supported in Windows 7 and works seamlesly with UMAC Turbo CPU/Communications Board (3xx-603766-xHxx) with PC/104 option. Correct?

     

    6) UMAC Turbo CPU/Communications Board (with PC/104 option) + high performance 3rd party PCI/104+ sbc (say 1,6GHz cpu + 2GB RAM) running Windows 7 is the best UMAC option for high blockrate & speed cnc applications if Power PMAC is not counted. This is due to the fact that PCI/104 ISA bus is superior to Ethernet/USB communication. Correct?

     

    7) How Power Supply Connections (UMAC Turbo, PC/104+ SBC) should be arranged in UMAC rack when Turbo CPU card is stacked with a PC/104+ sbc?

     

    Regards,

     

    Tuomo

     

    I'm planning to use UMAC Turbo CPU with a PC/104+ (PCI + ISA busses)SBC through PC/104-bus interface. A high performance SBC (e.g. VersaLogic sbc supporting Windows 7) is used to host PMAC NC Pro2.

     

    Q1: Can Windows 7 (and beyond) be used with this configuration? Windows 7 is not officially supporting ISA devices, so what does this mean for UMAC Turbo CPU with PC/104 bus?

     

    Q2: Does PCI/104-ISA bridge give any help in this respect if used between PCI/104 single board computer (running Windows 7) and the UMAC CPU controller?

     

    Q3: How UMAC CPU w/ PCI/104 connector is comfigured in Windows 7?

     

    Regards,

     

    Tuomo

     

     

    UMAC Turbo CPU with PC/104-bus interface

    in Turbo PMAC

    Posted

    I'm planning to use UMAC Turbo CPU with a PC/104+ (PCI + ISA busses)SBC through PC/104-bus interface. A high performance SBC (e.g. VersaLogic sbc supporting Windows 7) is used to host PMAC NC Pro2.

     

    Q1: Can Windows 7 (and beyond) be used with this configuration? Windows 7 is not officially supporting ISA devices, so what does this mean for UMAC Turbo CPU with PC/104 bus?

     

    Q2: Does PCI/104-ISA bridge give any help in this respect if used between PCI/104 single board computer (running Windows 7) and the UMAC CPU controller?

     

    Q3: How UMAC CPU w/ PCI/104 connector is comfigured in Windows 7?

     

    Regards,

     

    Tuomo

    Analog Torque Mode Accuracy

    in Turbo PMAC

    Posted

    Hi,

     

    Thank's for your answer!

     

    A few question more:

     

    1) Simodrive 611 has 14bits (sign + 13bits) resolution in its analog input - not 18bits. Is this good enough for accurate torque command assuming that the max linear acceleration (at 10V) for servo would be, say, 3m/s2. In theory 13bits corresponds min acceleration of 3/8196 m/s2?

     

    2) My educated guess is that Simodrive 611 has 120Ohm resistor between the encoder differential input lines according to Heidenhain's recommendation. This means that the input impedance is about 120Ohm. Please refer attached image!

     

    Correct if I'm wrong but is there some config option (like using high input impedance) with the acc-51E to handle exactly this kind of scenario? I think with dual feedback this is more or less the only way to provide the velocity data back to the controller...

     

    3) Have you used analog torque command succesfully in high precision applications? Just to make sure my idea is feasible and sound.

     

    4) Best way to have Backlash and Quadrant error compensation with dual feedback?

     

    Regards,

     

    Tuomo

    Hello Tuomo,

     

    You should be able to meet your goals with some care. Many people have done comparable systems successfully.

     

    The UMAC's analog outputs have 18-bit resolution, which is more than enough. They will be at least as fast as the serial digital communications of the Sinumerik. Degradation of the signal from noise is a potential issue, but it is manageable with standard techniques, and typically this will not be the most noise-sensitive signal.

     

    You must worry most about the 1Vpp signals from the sinusoidal encoders. The PWM signals on the power cables from the drive to the motor can inject significant noise into these signals if you are not careful. We recommend, as Heidenhain does, double shielding of the encoder cables, with the inner shield tied to signal ground, and the outer shield tied to chassis ground. The motor cable should be well shielded as well. The motor cables and encoder cables should be kept as separated as possible. You may well need to install chokes on the motor cable leads to "soften" the edges of the PWM signals.

     

    Proper grounding is essential. Ground loops can destroy signal quality. Our sine encoder inputs are high impedance, and if the Simodrive's are as well, double wiring should be OK, but you have to make sure that both circuits are at basically the same reference voltage.

     

    It is easy to experiment with different servo update rates. I would try both 4 and 8 kHz, and see if the performance at 8 kHz is enough to justify the extra processor time.

     

    Good luck!

     

    Curt

     

    Heidenhain.thumb.jpg.f8df4b5f07b9ee5ec49a90b2a51eda8d.jpg

    Analog Torque Mode Accuracy

    in Turbo PMAC

    Posted

    Hi,

     

    I'm planning to build a high performance cnc system (3 feed axes plus 2 index axes) for my pattern and mould milling machine. I already have Siemens 1FT6 series servos w/Heidenhain 2048 encoders + Simodrive 611 converter system (power modules, regenarative infeed module + line filters & hf commutating reactor).

     

    Simodrive 611 converter system has an excellent match with 1FT6 servos, and thus, I do not need to worry about the current loop tuning or torque smoothness.

     

    However, I would like to use your controller (Turbo UMAC 160MHz) (instead of proprietary Sinumerik 840D) to be able to better customize the entire system. In this scanario Simodrive just takes care of the current loop and commutation (Analog current/torque mode) and the Turbo UMAC acts as the real cnc controller.

     

    Dual feedback (servo and load) shall be used with Heidenhain rotary and linear encoders (incremental 1vpp signals) with your 4096 interpolator.

     

    Simodrive power module + 611 U HRS drive control unit has the following specs when used as a current mode drive.

     

    -analog input resolution 14bits (sign + 13bits)

    -differential input

    -sampling rate (8kHz or 16kHz)

    -PWM switching frequency 4kHz or 8kHz) i.e. dual sampling

    -current loop bandwidth ca. 1kHz

    -space vector controlling (iq id)

     

    I have, however, a few concerns, and I would to hear your honest opinionbefore I go forward.

     

    1) Is +-10V analog torque command signal (ACC-24E2A) with the above mentioned (10V/8092) resolution good enough (accuracy and speed) for high speed machining if shielding and grounding are done correctly? Are normal unavoidable ac noise or common mode disturbances any issue with analog current mode signals when Turbo UMAC is closing the pos and velocity loops with 8096 interpolated feedback signals?

     

    2) How good system I could get with an analog torque command in terms of accuracy and speed if compared with digital communication (like Sinumerik is communicating with Simodrive)?

     

    3) What should be the Turbo UMAC servo update rate to give the best performance with the above mentioned Simodrive current drive? 4 or even 8kHz?

     

    4) Incremental 1vpp velocity feedback signals from the servos must be "split" between Simodrive drive (which is also providing the supply voltage for the encoder) and ACC-51. Is there any problems regarding this in terms of noise disturbances etc?

     

    Thank you in advance!

     

    Tuomo

    Turbo UMAC CPU Performance

    in Turbo PMAC

    Posted

    Curt, Thank's a lot!

     

    Regards,

     

    Tuomo

     

    Tuomo:

     

    Yes, the UMAC CPU card with the PC/104 interface and DPRAM is the best configuration for fast communications.

     

    I think with the large internal memory of the 160 MHz processor, you will have enough to do a good NC application. You will not gain that much memory by going to the larger external memory (because there is not the mapping to support all of the large internal memory and large external memory). The additional memory is about an $800 additional cost.

     

    A 1.8GHz PC processor should easily be fast enough to stream the 1000 blocks per second that you want. While PC/104-Plus is "supposed to be" backward-compatible with the original PC/104, our experience is that this is not always true.

     

     

    Turbo UMAC CPU Performance

    in Turbo PMAC

    Posted

    Hi,

     

    Thank you for your quick answer!

     

    However, a few clarifications around the topic is still needed...

     

    The PC/104 BUS INTERFACE (30A-603766-OPT) + DPR is the best (fastest) opt for an UMAC TURBO CONTROLLER CPU 160Mhz/240MHz. Correct?

     

    And when the aforementioned card is used with 3rd party UMAC mounted pc/104 card (>1,8GHz) w/ hd, it should be a good fit for 3+ axes high speed machining with 1000+ block rates. Correct?

     

    I'm planning to start with a std PMAC-NC Pro2 as a client and later on to customize it, if needed.

     

    QUESTION: As for other bottleneks Jeff mentioned, how much UMAC memory is needed for "normal" (3 axes linear or circle interpolation w/ lookahead, possible tool compensation) high speed machining (3 axes + index table) at 1000 block/s throughput when used with DPR + pc/104? Is the std option 5E0 (160 MHz DSP56311 CPU w/128Kx24 internal memory, 128Kx24 SRAM compiled/ assembled program memory, 128Kx24 SRAM user data memory, and 1Mx8 flash memory) enough? This is the memory opt I currently have.

     

    QUESTION: If more memory is needed, how much does it cost (ball park figure) to update my UMAC TURBO CONTROLLER card?

     

    QUESTION: Is the pc/104 bus UMAC TURBO is using compatible with any pc/104 plus pc card? I quess it should be, because pc/104 plus is ment to be backward compatible, but need to know before make any decisions.

     

    This combo is, of course, second to Power UMAC, but I happen to own 4 brand new 160MHz cards + 1 240MHz card and would like to proceed with them, if feasible...

     

    Regards,

     

    Tuomo

     

    Jeff is correct that Ethernet and USB will not get you to 1000 blocks/sec. However, PC/104 (the stack version of the ISA bus) has been used successfully at well over 1000 blocks/sec. It is almost as fast as the PCI bus interface. As Jeff suggests, you must make sure there is no other bottleneck that slows you down.

     

    The Power PMAC CPU for the UMAC, with its 1Gbps Ethernet interface streaming directly into the processor, has been used for multiple thousands of blocks per second.

     

     

    Turbo UMAC CPU Performance

    in Turbo PMAC

    Posted

    Dear all,

     

    I have Turbo UMAC CPU (160MHz and 240MHz) with on-board USB2/Ethernet Communications boards (w/ DPRAM option) to be used with high-speed 3,5 axes cnc applications. Roughly speaking the targeted block rate should be around 1000 blocks/sec. Now I would like to know expert's opinion for the following questions:

     

    1) Can the communication channel (host<->UMAC) become the bottleneck or does it matter at all which option (USB/Ethernet/PC-104) to choose to satisfy above mentioned block rate requirements?

     

    2) The best (fastest) way to communicate with the host (Xp/Win 7)computer? Is it USB 2.0 with remote pc or should one use the old good pc/104 (isa) with 3rd party (UMAC mounted) high-performance embedded pc/104 card pc (with hard-drive)?

     

    3) Some ball park figures for relative /max absolute throughputs (USB 2.0 vs. vs Ethernet vs. pc/104) when PMAC-NC PRO2 is used as a client?

     

    4) If pc/104 were the best option can I use pc/104-plus form-factor pc with UMAC Turbo?

     

    Thank you in advance!

     

    Regards,

     

    Tuomo

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